Big Book Anon Workshop: Step 09

Page 76


Probably there are still some misgivings. As we look over the list of business acquaintances and friends we have hurt, we may feel diffident about going to some of them on a spiritual basis. Let us be reassured. To some people we need not, and probably should not emphasize the spiritual feature on our first approach. We might prejudice them. At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us. It is seldom wise to approach an individual, who still smarts from our injustice to him, and announce that we have gone religious. In the prize ring, this would be called leading with the chin. Why lay ourselves open to being branded fanatics or religious bores? We may kill a future opportunity to carry a beneficial message. But our man is sure to be impressed with a sincere desire to set right the wrong. He is going to be more interested in a demonstration of good will than in our talk of spiritual discoveries.

  • Mention spirituality, God, alcoholism / anonism, recovery, steps, etc.:
    • If it might explain the behaviour
    • If it might lend credibility to the amend
    • If someone else might be helped
    • In short if it will help
    • If it will not help: don't mention it
  • An alternative:
    • Say I've been reviewing past behaviour and owe the person an apology
  • Putting our lives in order
    • Apology
    • Paying back the money
    • Repairing other worldly harm
    • Expressing goodwill (to neutralise former ill will)
  • Fitting ourselves to be of maximum service
    • Wrongs not amended stand in the way
      • Internally
        • Our wrongs not amended block us from God
        • They block us from others
          • Through guilt / shame / embarrassment
          • Through the projection thereof as anger or hatred
      • Externally
        • People will be hostile or mistrustful
    • Amends do not always clear the way externally
    • The other person may retain hostility or mistrust
    • But once we have done what we can, we are spiritually liberated
    • If others remain blocked towards us, God can work round that if necessary
  • 'Except when to do so would injure them or others:'
    • Principle 1:
    • Do not make amends in a way which will make me less useful to others
    • Do make amends in a way which will make me more useful to others
  • Sincere desire to set right the wrong
    • Keep the focus on the other person being owed and us paying the debt
    • Whatever our motivation and feeling, the practical focus of the amend is on them

We don’t use this as an excuse for shying away from the subject of God. When it will serve any good purpose, we are willing to announce our convictions with tact and common sense. The question of how to approach the man we hated will arise. It may be he has done us more harm than we have done him and, though we may have acquired a better attitude toward him, we are still not too keen about admitting our faults. Nevertheless, with a person we dislike, we take the bit in our teeth. It is harder to go to an enemy than to a friend, but we find it much more beneficial to us. We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former ill feeling and expressing our regret.

  • Guiding principles:
    • Tact and common sense
    • Helpful and forgiving spirit
  • The approach
    • Option 1
      • Grab the person and make the apology then and there
    • Option 2
      • Approach them in writing (hard copy or electronically)
      • Say you would like to make amends / apologise
      • Ask for a good time to call or visit and/or offer to put the amend in writing
      • Leave the ball in their court as to how they would like to hear it (in writing, by telephone, in person)
      • Say you'll send a letter in any case in a couple of weeks (hard copy or electronically) if you don't hear back
      • Say there is no pressure to read it if they're not interested
      • But you wish them well anyway
  • When horses take the bit in their teeth, they wrest control from the rider
  • When we take the bit in our teeth, we wrest control from our egos
  • The content of the amend:
    • Confession of what we did wrong
    • Expression of regret
    • Encouraging the other person to speak if they wish
    • Asking what we can do to set things right
  • Keep it simple, brief, and concrete
  • Don't get lost in disclosures of internal states
  • Confessing former ill feeling
    • This is appropriate only if:
      • They know you hated them
      • They know this because you said so or clearly acted maliciously or malevolently
    • Note that this paragraph is on making amends to enemies
    • Enemies are those with whom there is 'open warfare'
    • Never disclose internal negative feeling towards a person when this would represent news
    • Never disclose details of internal negative feeling ('I hated you because ...')

Under no condition do we criticize such a person or argue. Simply we tell him that we will never get over drinking until we have done our utmost to straighten out the past. We are there to sweep off our side of the street, realizing that nothing worth while can be accomplished until we do so, never trying to tell him what he should do. His faults are not discussed. We stick to our own. If our manner is calm, frank, and open, we will be gratified with the result.

  • Don't:
    • Criticise
    • Argue
    • Direct
    • Discuss their faults
  • Do
    • Stick to my faults
  • Be
    • Calm
    • Frank
    • Open

In nine cases out of ten the unexpected happens. Sometimes the man we are calling upon admits his own fault, so feuds of years’ standing melt away in an hour. Rarely do we fail to make satisfactory progress. Our former enemies sometimes praise what we are doing and wish us well. Occasionally, they will offer assistance. It should not matter, however, if someone does throw us out of his office. We have made our demonstration, done our part. It’s water over the dam.

  • Note that, if they're upset by the amend, that does not mean we should not have made it
  • We don't make amends if it would create new harm
  • But it's par for the course for old feeling to resurface
  • This does not mean we are creating new harm
  • It means that the lid is being lifted on emotion that was there all along
  • However:
    • Do be tactful and considerate
    • Be specific not explicit: don't rub their noses in it
    • Attempt to preserve the other person's dignity if the situation would have embarrassed them

Most alcoholics owe money. We do not dodge our creditors. Telling them what we are trying to do, we make no bones about our drinking; they usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm. Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us. Arranging the best deal we can we let these people know we are sorry. Our drinking has made us slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go, for we are liable to drink if we are afraid to face them.

  • Pay all the money back
  • If you can't pay it back now, come to an arrangement
  • If they don't want it, give to to a charity
  • We will not be free until we've (a) paid back the money or (b) come to an arrangement

Perhaps we have committed a criminal offense which might land us in jail if it were known to the authorities. We may be short in our accounts and unable to make good. We have already admitted this in confidence to another person, but we are sure we would be imprisoned or lose our job if it were known. Maybe it’s only a petty offense such as padding the expense account. Most of us have done that sort of thing. Maybe we are divorced, and have remarried but haven’t kept up the alimony to number one. She is indignant about it, and has a warrant out for our arrest. That’s a common form of trouble too.
Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything.

  • There are no fixed rules for amends
  • There are only principles
  • Principles require intelligence, common sense, experience, and good judgement
  • Principles play off against each other and are accorded different weightings in different settings

  • We must be willing to go to any lengths
  • Personal consequences are not relevant (e.g. loss of face)
  • However: there are few situations where personal consequences do not have major effects on others
    • If we go to prison we cannot work and benefit others
    • If a criminal prosecution is launched, this could cost the state a six-figure sum or more
    • Criminal prosecutions take a lot of people's time at all stages of the process
    • How could that time or money be better spent?
    • If our employability is damaged, we are of less use in the workplace
    • We might even require financial assistance from the state
  • Freedom comes from willingness plus, where suitable, follow-through
  • In other words, we can be free even if circumstances prevent follow-through

Usually, however, other people are involved. Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit. A man we know had remarried. Because of resentment and drinking, he had not paid alimony to his first wife. She was furious. She went to court and got an order for his arrest. He had commenced our way of life, had secured a position, and was getting his head above water. It would have been impressive heroics if he had walked up to the Judge and said, “Here I am.”
We thought he ought to be willing to do that if necessary, but if he were in jail he could provide nothing for either family. We suggested he write his first wife admitting his faults and asking forgiveness. He did, and also sent a small amount of money. He told her what he would try to do in the future. He said he was perfectly willing to go to jail if she insisted. Of course she did not, and the whole situation has long since been adjusted.
Before taking drastic action which might implicate other people we secure their consent. If we have obtained permission, have consulted with others, asked God to help and the drastic step is indicated we must not shrink.

  • Note that usually other people are involved
  • 'Except when to do so would injure them or others:'
    • Principle 2:
    • Do not make amends in a way which
      • Involves other people (without their consent)
      • ... through direct impact
      • ... or through implication in our wrong
  • Procedure in cases of doubt:
    • Obtain permission
    • Consult
    • Pray
    • Determine if 'the drastic step is indicated'
      • (By the Higher Power ...
      • ... or by wise advisers)
    • Do it

This brings to mind a story about one of our friends. While drinking, he accepted a sum of money from a bitterly-hated business rival, giving him no receipt for it. He subsequently denied having received the money and used the incident as a basis for discrediting the man. He thus used his own wrong-doing as a means of destroying the reputation of another. In fact, his rival was ruined.
He felt that he had done a wrong he could not possibly make right. If he opened that old affair, he was afraid it would destroy the reputation of his partner, disgrace his family and take away his means of livelihood. What right had he to involve those dependent upon him? How could he possibly make a public statement exonerating his rival?
After consulting with his wife and partner he came to the conclusion that it was better to take those risks than to stand before his Creator guilty of such ruinous slander. He saw that he had to place the outcome in God’s hands or he would soon start drinking again, and all would be lost anyhow. He attended church for the first time in many years. After the sermon, he quietly got up and made an explanation. His action met widespread approval, and today he is one of the most trusted citizens of his town. This all happened years ago.

  • This represents the worked example of the above procedure in the case of doubt

The chances are that we have domestic troubles. Perhaps we are mixed up with women in a fashion we wouldn’t care to have advertised. We doubt if, in this respect, alcoholics are fundamentally much worse than other people. But drinking does complicate sex relations in the home. After a few years with an alcoholic, a wife gets worn out, resentful and uncommunicative. How could she be anything else? The husband begins to feel lonely, sorry for himself. He commences to look around in the night clubs, or their equivalent, for something besides liquor. Perhaps he is having a secret and exciting affair with “the girl who understands.” In fairness we must say that she may understand, but what are we going to do about a thing like that? A man so involved often feels very remorseful at times, especially if he is married to a loyal and courageous girl who has literally gone through hell for him.
Whatever the situation, we usually have to do something about it. If we are sure our wife does not know, should we tell her? Not always, we think. If she knows in a general way that we have been wild, should we tell her in detail? Undoubtedly we should admit our fault. She may insist on knowing all the particulars. She will want to know who the woman is and where she is. We feel we ought to say to her that we have no right to involve another person. We are sorry for what we have done and, God willing, it shall not be repeated. More than that we cannot do; we have no right to go further. Though there may be justifiable exceptions, and though we wish to lay down no rule of any sort, we have often found this the best course to take.
Our design for living is not a one-way street. It is as good for the wife as for the husband. If we can forget, so can she. It is better, however, that one does not needlessly name a person upon whom she can vent jealousy.
Perhaps there are some cases where the utmost frankness is demanded. No outsider can appraise such an intimate situation. It may be that both will decide that the way of good sense and loving kindness is to let by-gones be by-gones. Each might pray about it, having the other one’s happiness uppermost in mind. Keep it always in sight that we are dealing with that most terrible human emotion—jealousy. Good generalship may decide that the problem be attacked on the flank rather than risk a face-to-face combat.

  • 'Except when to do so would injure them or others:'
    • Principle 3:
    • Don't reveal new information!
    • Some harms are done regardless of whether the person is aware (e.g. financial harm)
    • Almost all other harms require the awareness of the act in question
    • It is the individual's awareness of the harm that turns the act into a harm
    • Do not turn acts into harms by causing someone to realise what was not known!

If we have no such complication, there is plenty we should do at home. Sometimes we hear an alcoholic say that the only thing he needs to do is to keep sober. Certainly he must keep sober, for there will be no home if he doesn’t. But he is yet a long way from making good to the wife or parents whom for years he has so shockingly treated. Passing all understanding is the patience mothers and wives have had with alcoholics. Had this not been so, many of us would have no homes today, would perhaps be dead.
The alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked, “Don’t see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain’t it grand the wind stopped blowin’?”
Yes, there is a long period of reconstruction ahead. We must take the lead. A remorseful mumbling that we are sorry won’t fill the bill at all. We ought to sit down with the family and frankly analyze the past as we now see it, being very careful not to criticize them. Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible. So we clean house with the family, asking each morning in meditation that our Creator show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness and love.

  • This amplifies the procedure with close relationships
  • 'Frankly analyse the past'
    • This means our past: not what they did
    • Set out our conduct (not internal states)
    • Do not criticise
  • This also gives us our tenth instruction for the Step Eleven morning routine
    • Ask God to show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness, and love
    • Patience / tolerance
      • It's OK for people to be ineffective, inefficient, or slow
      • It's OK for people to be at the stage of development they're at
      • It's OK for people to have character defects
      • These all go for me, too
    • Kindliness:
      • Always view others in the most charitable light
      • Always consider what people might be up against internally and externally
    • Love
      • Act in others' interests ...
      • ... without unreasonably compromising one's own
      • Place common welfare first

The spiritual life is not a theory. We have to live it. Unless one’s family expresses a desire to live upon spiritual principles we think we ought not to urge them. We should not talk incessantly to them about spiritual matters. They will change in time. Our behavior will convince them more than our words. We must remember that ten or twenty years of drunkenness would make a skeptic out of anyone.

  • Don't force spirituality on anyone
  • The follow-up after the amend conversation: act well

There may be some wrongs we can never fully right. We don’t worry about them if we can honestly say to ourselves that we would right them if we could. Some people cannot be seen—we send them an honest letter. And there may be a valid reason for postponement in some cases. But we don’t delay if it can be avoided. We should be sensible, tactful, considerate and humble without being servile or scraping. As God’s people we stand on our feet; we don’t crawl before anyone.

  • Do my utmost to write a complete Step Eight list
  • Do my utmost to find everyone on it
    • If necessary pay for services that trace people
  • Place anyone I cannot find in God's hands
  • Stop worrying about such people or situations
  • If they cannot be seen write a letter
  • If they cannot be found, write a letter and read it out to an oldtimer who understands this process
  • Make amends now: do not delay for good reason
  • Principles:
    • Be sensible, tactful, considerate, and humble
    • Don't be servile or scraping
    • Stand on our feet
    • Don't crawl before anyone

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us—sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.

  • These are the Step Nine promises
  • Note that the whole of the Big Book contains promises
  • The content of the Big Book's basic text chiefly comprises:
    • Facts
    • Ideas
    • Reasoning
    • Illustrations, stories, etc.
    • Instructions: what to believe, think, or do
    • Promises: what flows from these
    • Counter-instructions: what not to believe, think, or do
    • Warnings: what flows from these



Annex 1: How to approach someone you are not in regular contact with

When taking Step Nine with someone you are not in regular contact with, approach them with tact and consideration.
To to this, approach them in writing explaining why you are in contact with them.
If you do not explain why you are contacting them, they have no cause to reply, as you are not someone they are in regular contact with.
Secondly, if you have harmed them, they may not perceive you benevolently.
Do not, therefore, say, 'I would like to talk to you,' or 'Can we meet for coffee?' without further explanation.
If you explain you would like to make amends or apologise for past poor behaviour, they are more likely to respond.
If necessary, make clear there are no ulterior motives.
Offer them the choice of how to receive the amend: in person, by telephone or similar, or in writing.
Say that you quite understand if they do not wish to have further contact, but that, if you hear nothing, you will send through the amend in writing, which they may read or discard as they wish.
Then wish them well in any case.
Two weeks later or so, send the amend through in writing, expressing your openness to follow-up in person, by telephone or similar, or in writing.



Annex 2: Concise notes on Step Nine

The spirit of amends

Real purpose: fitting ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us (77:0)
Demonstration of good will (77:0)
Sincere desire to set right wrong (77:0)
Tact and common sense (77:1)
Helpful and forgiving spirit (77:1)
Do not criticise or argue (77:2)
Do not tell others what to do (78:0)
Do not discuss their faults (78:0)
Calm frank and open (78:0)
Quietly (80:3)
Good sense and loving kindness (82:1)
Patience, tolerance, kindliness, and love (83:1)
Lead the way with behaviour as well as words (83:2)
Do not urge others to following a spiritual path or bang on about spiritual matters (83:2)
Sensible, tactful, considerate, and humble, without being servile or scraping (83:3)
Stand on our feet as God's people (83:3)
Do not crawl before anyone (83:3)
Concentrate on one's own spiritual demonstration (98:3)
Avoid argument and fault-finding like the plague (98:3)
Sober, considerate, helpful (99:1)

How to make amends

Say why we are making the appointment to see someone, calling them, writing them a letter, etc. (77:2)
Be direct about the drinking and recovery (77:2, 78:2)
Mention God/spirituality if it would help (77:0)
Admit faults (78:0, 79:3, 81:1)
Frankly analyse the past (83:1)
Confess former ill-feeling (if they know about it!) (77:1)
Express sorrow, regret (77:1, 78:2, 81:1)
Ask forgiveness (79:3)
Ask if there is anything else we have done to harm the person and if they want to tell us how it affected them.
Ask what we can do to make things right (83:2—'our behaviour . . .')

Follow-through with family or other people close to us

"So we clean house with the family, asking each morning in meditation that our Creator show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindness, and love.
The spiritual life is not a theory. We have to live it. . . Our behaviour will convince them more than our words." (83:1–2)
". . . thoroughly explain to them the new principles by which he is living . . . proceed to put these principles into action at home." (98:3)
"Though his family be at fault in many respects, he should not be concerned about that. He should concentrate on his own spiritual demonstration. Argument and fault-finding are to be avoided like the plague." (98:3)
". . . provided, however, the alcoholic continues to demonstrate that he can be sober, considerate, and helpful, regardless of what anyone says or does. Of course, we all fall much below this standard many times. But we must try to repair the damage immediately lest we pay the penalty by a spree." (99:1)

What to do if you cannot see the person directly

Write a letter (83:3).
Other options (not in the Book) for where it is agreed the direct approach is impossible or inadvisable—consult with a sponsor concerning these:
  • Praying for knowledge of God's will as to how to make alternative/indirect amends.
  • Writing an anonymous letter.
  • Writing a letter and reading it to a friend, sponsor, or spiritual advisor.
  • Writing a letter and reading it at a person's grave or a place with significance for the person in question.
  • Sending money anonymously.
  • Giving money or time to an appropriate charity.
  • Making indirect amends, e.g. finding a way to help people in a similar position to those your have harmed but cannot make direct amends to.
  • Considering what changed behaviour patterns are required on an ongoing basis and adopting those new behaviour patterns.
  • Ask your sponsor for further ideas on how an indirect amend can be made.
In any case, place the matter in God's hands (120:3).

When not to make amends directly (because it would harm them or others)

"Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us." (77:0)
"Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit." (79:2)
If the amend would actually make it harder for us to be of maximum service to God and the people around us, we need to be careful, and consult with others and God (80:1).
Examples could include causing ourselves to be unemployable or costing taxpayers money through court cases, etc., or placing those dependent on us financially in a worse financial position.
If possible, obtain the permission of those who may be affected (80:1).
Do not generally reveal new information (81:1).
Do not involve other people (81:1).

Factors that do not stand in the way of amends

Them having harmed us more than we harmed them (77:1)
Still not liking the person (77:1)
A negative response from them (anticipated or actual) (78:1)
Financial harm to us (78:2)
Personal consequences in general (loss of position or reputation, or jail) (79:1)

When do you make amends?

Now (83:3)

Financial amends                                        

Face the creditors now and arrange the best deal ("Arranging the best deal we can we let these people know we are sorry ... We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go, for we are liable to drink if we are afraid to face them.") (78:2)
A practical note: prioritise debts where you will be pursued legally and consider consolidating such debts through an agency. Consider how much you can afford to pay off per month in total and split, if possible, between all your creditors, in terms of an opening offer for how much to pay back. Then you will be able to approach everyone more or less simultaneously and will not have to delay approaching any particular creditor. It may be best to approach and negotiate deals with all of the creditors who can pursue you legally first before entering into any arrangements with people who do not have a legal claim or do not even know you owe them money.
The key priority is approaching creditors promptly.

Step Nine prayers

"God, please fit me to be of maximum service to you and to those around me." (77:0)
"God, show me whether or not to make these amends directly." (80:1)
"God, let me place the outcome of these amends in your hands." (80:4)
"God, show me the right way to approach these amends; have me keep the happiness of X uppermost in my mind." (82:1)
"God, show me the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness, and love." (83:2)

A way of 'managing' the amends

Split the amends cards/sheets into four piles:
Willing and able
Willing and unable
Unwilling and able
Unwilling and unable
'Willing' means you are prepared to make the amend today.
'Able' means you understand clearly the harm, are clear on how to make the amend, and have the details for how to contact the person in question.
Proceed with the willing-and-able pile (under the guidance of a sponsor) and pray to God for willingness/ability/further preparatory steps to take for those where you are unwilling or unable.
Review periodically to see which amends have shifted from unwilling and/or unable to willing and/or able.


Annex 3: Step 09: What do we do with the Step Eight?

Step Eight identifies where our behaviour is wrong. It also identifies if and how we have harmed others.

Depending on the nature, severity, and circumstances of the wrong and the harm, there are six possible course of action. More than one may apply.

Amend: Full-blown Big Book amend. Where there is harm, an amend is due, except where the usual caveats apply.

Apology: Low-key apology. We've been out of line, no one has been harmed, but courtesy and manners demand an apology.

Acknowledgement of impact: A recognition that one has impacted another but without admitting fault. Practical, emotion, and psychological difficulties can negatively impact others. Where there was nothing we could or should reasonably have done differently in the circumstances, amends and apologies are inappropriate, but acknowledging impact is appropriate.

Thanks: Long-overdue thanks are often welcomed.

Remedial action: Return the book. Clean the mess. Clear the shelf.

Altered behaviour: Our behaviour was wrong but it's below the threshold for an amend or apology, and the 'acknowledgement conditions' are not met. This may apply, too, even where there is an amend or an apology due.

Tactical learning: Sometimes we don't handle something optimally but it wasn't wrong or harmful in any material way. Lessons can nonetheless be learned. This may apply in all of the above cases.


Annex 4: When writing a letter can be better than face to face or on the phone

When the person will not see you.
When the person will not talk to you on the phone or similar.
When the person is dead.
When you have completely lost touch with the person and need to approach them in stages.
When they are much older, more senior, more important, or more strapped for time.
When you need to approach the subject matter with particular tact and consideration.
When the subject matter is particularly sensitive.
When the harm involved considerable embarrassment or humiliation of the other person.
When the amend needs to be worded very carefully.
When there is a lot of material to get out.
When there is a risk the other person will misconstrue what is said.
When there is risk the other person will prevent you from completing an oral amend.
When there is a risk of the conversation becoming derailed.
When there is a risk of other material eclipsing the amend.
When there is a risk of a romantic or sexual flare-up.
When the harm consisted in violence, stalking, nuisance, interference, or intrusion.
When they have said they do not want to see you or speak to you.
When they terminated the relationship in the first place.

Letters can often open the door to a phone call and / or a face-to-face meeting.

Indeed, a more personal expression of regret and follow-up should always be offered.

The job is to get the job done in the best way taking into account the other person and approaching them the way we would want to be approached if the tables were turned.

Comments